The Musings Of An Opinionated Sod [Help Me Grow!]

Are you officially now back Robert? I have to ask because you write so many posts when you claim to be away.

If you are, then I hope they continue in this vein rather than the “Nottingham newsflas” you brought to us last week. It was vrey droll, but these posts are much more interesting and represent you (and us) in a much better light. Plus Mary will like you more.

Poor JP Morgan. I know what they were trying to do but they slipped on a banana skin. For an industry that exists on confidence they accidently put both feet in their greedy mouths. And do my eyes deceive me or is this chart showing Santander is in a better position to JP? I would have thought they would be which is why I would have thought JP would not have featured them in their comparison.

Good post Robert. Long may it continue.

Don’t shoot the messenger 🙂

To be fair, the data does have some numbers attached to them – they just are too small to see on the pic I think. And can I say I once got 2% in a maths exam so whilst I appreciate your mathamatical genius, it means absolutely sod all to me – which is probably how the banking industry got to pull such a fast one on so many people, ha!

No, it say’s you’re a bloody clever magpie …

BTW, just realised I’m STILL using the same calculator I had at junior school and I am pretty sure it’s still on the same battery – which says something – but I’m not exactly sure what!

[Texas Instruments TI-30 – which my friends at school used to joke was the size of an Acorn BBC bloody computer …

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/TI-30-Galaxy/TI-30-Galaxy-M.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/TI-30-Galaxy/Contents.htm&usg=__cpLMJ5KIGAuQD1frhb0pObMqWQI=&h=800&w=1066&sz=83&hl=en&start=68&um=1&tbnid=Beki_0uExuqreM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTexas%2BInstruments%2BTI-30%2BCalculator%26start%3D63%26ndsp%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft ]

And featuring Santander isn’t so dumb – if you imply you’re the best when you’re not, you’ll get called on selective data. Here, they at least show they’re performing “better” than most of the other big banks. Their audience presumably is their customers and not the people who are paying for the bail-out.

ah the very people who created the economic mess are the ones most likely to profit from it. Congratulations to the banks for convincing us:

a) to use our tax dollars to enable them to pay their bloated executives ‘bonuses’ for being incompetent.
b) to use our tax dollars to allow them to lend us our own money and charge interest at 24% for a credit card or 6.5% for a home loan.
c) to use our tax dollars to fund their retirement not our own.
d) to lend them 700 billion dollars to save their arses with no strings attached, never have to pay it back and with virtually no conditions on how they use it.
e) but the cleverest trick by far is convincing us that they are necessary at all. Verbal Kint would have been proud.

Maybe we are the most apathetic generation ever – but tell me, what can I do about the world global economic situation? Close all my bank accounts and keep my money under the matress?

I simply don’t know enough about the ins and outs of fincancial markets and I too have managed a 2% mark in a maths exam, so I am all ears. Is there anything I can do to make a difference?

A free market can benefit everyone. The problem occurs when a company interprets “free” as being an invitation to break legal, moral or ethical codes of conduct.

Naturally there are many who need to shoulder some of the blame for this economic situation, but let’s keep the spotlight on the financial institutions who are doing a sterling job of trying to hide in the shadows of responsibility.

This is a much improved post Robert, but the question is whether you will be able to maintain the standard?

But Bhaskar – the scenario you paint has already happened to many people, hundreds – if not millions – of people all around the World.

The issue for me is that the economy won’t be bolstered just by giving the banks money to lend, it’s about giving society the hope and confidence that there is a future for them where investment will pay dividends down the line, not greater fear, pressure, concern and debt.

Just giving the banks money is akin to trying to train cats. If they don’t want it, it doesn’t matter what you do, nothing will change.

Yes, that oculd be the shittest analogy EVER!

I think your second expression – ease – is closer to the truth.

That and the fact that they were in a race against the speed of [bank account] emptiness, ha!

I remember a quote someone said in the Michael Moore film “SICKO”.

Whilst I can’t remember it specifically, it went something like …

“When the Government are frightened of the people, things with purpose happen … but when the people are frightened of the Government, we sit frightened and demoralized”

Who is to blame? It’s a big question!

The bankers were operating within the rules governments set for them (unless they broke the law in which case they will be sort-of punished by the criminal justice process, in so far as anyone is ever “punished” for anything).

But why are the bankers anymore to blame than anyone who sold their house for more than three and a half times average salary? It was within the rules, so who can blame them?

And who is telling us to blame the bankers anyway? Since no real “narrative” appears in the media without someone placing it there and manipulating it.

That doesn’t mean the bankers should escape blame, but the politicians need to be in the dock as well, and the estate agents, and the conveyancing lawyers etc. And maybe also the ad industry for telling people they had to have lifestyles they couldn’t really afford (and probably didn’t really want in the first place).

But we are where we are.

The real fall-guys (I think) are going to be the Chinese since the western governments are deliberately letting the value of currencies (particularly the dollar) fall in value. As the Chinese hold billions and billions of dollars the recession is being paid for by China. Do they realise this? And what are they going to do when the penny finally drops that all their hard work and hard saving over the last ten years is evaporating? China is not a liberal democracy. Faced with riots the Chinese government may do something stupid to distract their population (like attack Taiwan).

But perhaps I’m being paranoid.

The bankers dont get punished Andrew. We might get one scapegoat if we are lucky. The rest will get consultancy jobs at 100k a week.

Is it our fault for selling our houses at what they were ‘worth’ at the time. Just as many of us bought them at those prices. We didnt set the price movements, estate agents and banks did that. IF you have to buy or sell you have no choice but to put it at roughly market value.

I agree though that most bankers were acting legally, just not morally. And that is the fault of all of us for letting governments let them do it.

I have always said the bankers are not the only ones to blame for this situation, however whilst the majority did work within the law, many were living in the ‘grey area’ and the information they divulged – or more accurately, DIDN’T divulge’ – means that in many situations, they were at the very least acting in a manner that was morally and/or ethically criminal.

I don’t believe the house analogy is right. As Mr M said, there is nothing wrong selling a house for the market rate – a house that performs what is expected of it … however many of these financial institutions sold products that had no chance of achieving what was claimed.

Sure the purchasers should of embarked on more due dilligence – and some did but were lied to – but the issue isn’t about the purchaser, it is about the motivations of the seller and the legal framework … and if you look into that, you will find many things that are deserving of public outrage, not bailouts.

PS: Let me assure you Andrew, the Chinese are very canny and you might think they don’t know they’re paying for the recession/bail out – but they are smart and more self focused than most Westerners give them credit for … and when the time is right, they will reveal their hand and we will see the masterplan. And no, I am not being dramatic. Remember, it’s only been the last 500 years or so that the West has had financial leadership – not only has it/will it return to the East, but they will be in a much stronger position than anyone could imagine.

For nations who sided against the East, there is going to be a lot of humble pie to eat. A lot.

You should know Baz … they’ve been basically holding your company ransom for the last few years, ha!

This has been a good, lively debate that’s stayed on topic. What on earth is going on? Oh yeah, Andy is away that’s what …

I think some are more guilty than others Niko. And some banks have still paid out bonuses to their staff which is rubbing salt into the wounds not to mention demonstrating bankers lack of tact and humanity, which was to be expected I guess.

(something like $60bn by the way)

this chart reminds me of ‘blue is the new green’… anyway, i think one problem is that there is not only an interdependence, but that political systems and financial/economic systems are literally fused. i mean, if a politician is a member of parliament earning about 7,000 euros a month(in germany) and getting a hell lot of money from some bank/corporation at the same time… who is he/she likely to feeling more committed to? especially keeping in mind that there is a life after being a member of parliament after four years. i m not saying that every politician is an ego-maniac, but let s face it – it is easy to become one. the framework is just not set right… but those kind of topics are usually not on the agenda of mainstream media, unfortunately. i m not too optimistic about the progress of the whole financial situation. and i am not a specialist, but i think there have been a lot of strange decisions made – saving some top bankers’ asses and lifestyle. i m convinced that did not help the economy or the people, in the long term.
and yes, we still are all quite lucky. if we are able to read and write on this blog. because that probably means we are having enough to eat, drink and are sleeping in a proper house. and that is more than so many people all over the world have…

Is that actually true Peter? If it is, that is shocking but then hindsight is only valuable if you can see into the future.