The Musings Of An Opinionated Sod [Help Me Grow!]

management consultants in fucking shitty ad agency clothing. i just wish your trur anger side came out in this post, its still too fucking mild for my liking but maybe you shot your bolt on the last few days efforts. i fucking hate demand chain marketing and i fucking loath mccann especially as i can never spell their fucking shitty name properly. fuckers every last one of them.

When one of my posts makes Andy that angry, I truly think my job has been done.

Well Andy – cop a load of this.

To the person who sent me an [as much as it can be] anonymous email stating I am a c*** because Mccann piss all over cynic interms of clients, offices, employees and profit levels – I’d simply like to say that ‘scale’ doesn’t always relate to talent, ingenuity or intelligence because if you follow that logic, Mariah Carey is the greatest and most adored musical artist of the generation – and we all know that’s Queen.

Actually I like that … Mccaan’s are the Mariah Carey of advertising, hahahaha!

Now why don’t you fuck off and come back to me when you have a valid viewpoint rather than just throwing childish insults behind the veil of secrecy.

I am always open to criticsim and viewpoints but if you are going to throw shit at me, I’ll fucking call you on it and implying intelligence and talent is only measurable by scale and money – well you are [1] probably American and [2] an American who votes Bush.

I do hope your naughty email gets you the kudos you wanted from your colleagues but your boss is waiting for his cock to be sucked, so rush along or he might be angry at you.

Mcann’s is no better or worse than any number of major networks – and I do know it has the power to do the odd bit of great thinking and work – mainly because you have seduced a few truly talented people to work there. However if you honestly believe you can hold a candle to the likes of Mother, W&K and Crispin’s interms of ingenuity, bravery and impact then you are very, very mistaken.

Sure you beat them hands down on suit-wearing, management-consultantesque, corporate-wank-talking … but I think they’ll let you have that.

Oh and a huuuuuuuuuuuuge congratulations on reminding me how many small minded, insecure, never-had-a-viewpoint-of-their-own people are still in advertising … you re-energised my anger and committment to try and make some change.

Hope you have a great day.

Love Robert.

Another great post Rob, you are on a roll but your response to the idiot who emailed you is much better. Not as good as Age’s seminal comment of yesterday, but great all the same.

Word of warning to whoever wrote to Rob: Don’t mess, he is a doberman on steroids when provoked.

You’re the one in control of the thermostat so you tell me.

Shame by association, eh Rob? I don’t know what you’re talking about. Ha!

I’ve always liked you Age, but I’m beginning to think Jill should be worried about my feelings towards you!

Now I am really, really angry.
White hot rage.
Ready to pick a fight with a small guy.
It’s fine to disagree, but when you haven’t the courage to say who you are. No sir.
And for what it’s worth, the more you sella process, the more utterly average you truly are.
REALLY MAD!
Rob may be, ahem, honest, and opinionated, but it’s up there to be argued with. We all know who he is. And he also happens to be one of the most generous people I’ve never met.
AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Still angry.

From now on, please direct all hate mail to this address:

hatemail@brown-mpm.de

I love the way NP didn’t mention Robert in terms of his intelligence, that’s very funny which is more than can be said for the email he received.

I know he isn’t bothered by it, he’s a big boy who believes if you “give it” you have to be able to “take it” but as opinionated as he is, it’s always based on depth and bredth of views so whilst he is open to others not agreeing with what he says, if you talk without substance, depth or purpose, he’ll go after you like a fat boy chases donuts.

I am looking to see where this goes, especially as we think we know who the naughty boy who did it may be.

I wonder if anyone else realises how Mafia like this blog is. Attack one of us and you have all of us to answer to. Except me, I’m a wimp with 3 beautiful daughters.

I think “Mafia” sounds a bit more menacing than “Sausage” Marcus, but I understand what you mean.

When I said I didnt like M+C Saatchi, someone anonymously called me a (look away now Mrs C) cunt. 🙁

Im sure these agencies have people whose sole job is to big them up when people slag it off.

I deeply love this blog. And as Andy, I think that your post was to mild. Your comment on the McCann crap was way better. And I am so bloody thankful that in my early days, when I was young, desperate and in need of money to pay my bills and the debts I owned my girlfriend the bloody McCann folks in Hamburg didn’t reply to my application as a copywriter. Looking back I was really desperate. And maybe drunken.
When reading this corporate toadiness I am quite thankful that our agency has only one tool, they tell the clients about. Common sense.

dear “see you next tuesday” 🙂

i would like to pass on my heartfelt thanks for insulting my colleague robert.

for months ive thought he was getting far too big for his boots what with his ideas, insights, opinions and encouragement and i am ecstatic that i have met someone who seems to be of the same opinion.

its an absolute bastard that one person can have so much insight and imagination because it kind of fucks up organisations like yours who know it takes at least 9 months of process and meetings to produce one thirty second piece of blandom and then another 9 months to evaluate whether it had any fucking impact on any aspect of the sales chain.

when i am on my death bed and looking back on my life, i too would like to think i worked in a multinational organisation, writing contact reports and documents that nobody read, attending meetings where i had nothing to say and going to christmas parties where people still dont know who i am despite being there 13 years. the only difference is you can safely say you will achieve that goal whereas ill have to be content with having put my neck on the line and trying to do something where i made a difference. but hey, you get paid well without any risk so who is the idiot really? yep, its me and im jealous.

jealous of your ability to know what youll be doing in 20 years from now. jealous you helped develop work for massive organisations even though most people only can remember the annoying as fuck “ding ding ding ding” of intel. jealous that you have a nice side parting. jealous you get an office with a door. jealous you have a big reception. jealous you have someone come in to water your plants. jealous you are able to feel youre a mover and a shaker even though you live in pleasantville. jealous you have a career path where if you work for another 45 years, you could become senior vice president to the senior vice president of client service (direct)

you have all the luck and success and yet you still are willing to look out for the little people who might be influenced by rob to stand up against mediocrity, help others and make things more interesting. thank fuck you are able to understand the negative ramifications that could have on us all so even though you hid behind a veil of secrecy, you did good for me, for us and for marketing in general and rather than be persecuted, you should be celebrated.

god bless the myopic. god bless the mediocre. god bless mcaan.

yours lovingly

andy and 60 cynicers (who all are now going to resign because youve made us realise were never going to be as big as you and so are destined to being failures in all aspects of our lives)

You have a way of putting things into real perspective don’t you Andy. Wonderfully written, especially the way you didn’t succumb to the youthful excitement of Will and Rob in literally writing the c word. Thumbs up.

Lets be fair, I was only quoting the word, not using it myself as such!

Still, well done Andy.

you fuck. you think i did that purely because i felt intimidated by ages moment of glory. how fucking dare you. i love campbell like a brother. not a nice brother, but a brother all the same. now go back to bed and ill see you in a few hours.

You can choose your friends but not your family Andy… we are all happy to shout at Andy, so we should be fair and praise his good moments!

Rob AND Andy on form, what a week 🙂

Jesus … what a lot has been going on while I’ve been bored out my mind in a meeting.

I am touched, shocked and humoured by all the comments but like George said, I am of the belief that if I give it out, I have to take it too.

To be honest, I find this all very funny so as nice as it is to be ‘protected’ by my blogmates, this is not a situation where it is needed – it’s a situation where we should all sit back and laugh – I know I am!

Ta though … means alot.

YAYAYAY for Marcus and his bad temper!

Second that yay!

What do you mean John?

George – I haven’t sworn on this thread. Yet. That was another thread; I’m a reformed character.

Andy put it brilliantly.

I know that patience is supposed to be a virtue, but there has been no hate mail action on my blog, which just pushes my anger barometer to vein bursting levels.

Not you you daft knob. Mr Anonymous.

That Marcus, not Maracasacusus, as written above… *ahem*

Of course I worked that out – having seen that the environment had prompted mild-mannered Emah to chopping her hair, I was just marvelling that 58 people were able to work in continuous close proximity to the raging creative anger (and apparent celebrity obsession) of the alpha cynics. It’s really quite encouraging.

Oh I see, the “sitting on the fence” dollar. Rob, that dollar sucks. That’s not a good dollar.

Night.

Andy you are a genius… but you already know that.

Errm. I’m not a planner.

Congratulations Ben on so totally missing the point as to hit someone elses point on a blog far far away.

1. I dont recall Rob creating the Demand tool.
2. This isnt talking to a consumer, or talking to a client. This a personal blog, you know, where people write about what they feel personally. Does it matter if this is condensed down? Its not like this is how Rob C (or anyone else here) writes their presentations.
3. Yes. Advertising never ever tries to look good by association. And god forbid someone share something they like/dislike in aid of clarifying a point.
4. Ah yes. Because you know precisely how much time we spend working. I wondered where those time sheets went…
5. Try reading the rest of his blog. And the rest of ours. You will find hate and inspiration in roughly similar measures.
6. Common sense IS common sense. But there is a place for wild crazy madness.

I appreciate you have had to make a snap judgement on all of us based on probably a few reads of one or two blogs. But I think you will find the people here are absolutely open to new ideas when they are expressed well, and with just a little modicum of respect.

Do you talk to your clients like that when they tell you they dont like your new idea? I hope not.

You see we have found the real truth here. You say we have one sided opinions and arent open to new ideas; when the real truth is that YOU have a one sided dislike of planners.

Considering half the people here arent even planners anyway it proves howmuch you want to fit your argument into an “anti planner” context.

As for writing, you will actually find that many of the people here are extremely good writers. But again, if you judge them based on their private unedited opinions instead of the finished product; and THEN factor in your one sided views its no wonder you cant see it.

You just remind of why Andy is so good. He dislikes planners but puts it so much more clearly, wittily, and infinitely more persuasively.

It’s tiresome isn’t it Ben? There’s this whole community out there constantly chipping away at the foundations of something you believe in and yes, probably love. It’s your craft after all. Damn it you went through hell it get where you are; done all the crap clients and spent hours burning the midnight oil trying to come up with that one fantastic claim – THE claim that would get you from the second to the third floor.

It was something you always had to fight for wasn’t it? And you were so proud of what you’d achieved. But then this community of loud mouthed proles moved in on the act and started questioning the rules and getting a little bit too much of your limelight. That’s them – there they are over there – just look at them with the profanity and cocky nature. Now they’re the ones getting all the attention in the industry press, now they’re the ones people think are interesting. Now they’re the one’s that are being considered creative.

And all the while you sit at your desk and toil away on some copy or a script and its good. It’s bloody good, but nobody’s going to take a damn bit of notice because it will get swallowed up in a brand debate that you feel you have no control over. You can feel the control slipping through your fingers and you look to your agency to get it back but you find that they are too busy trying to grab a piece of work to localise or trying to get themselves bought buy a larger network.

That’s them – there they are; sitting in there little groups taking your agency, your profession and tearing it to pieces.

But Ben, you may not like what we say, we may not like they way we say it, but until this ridiculous creative vs planner thing is dropped nothing will improve. Nothing will get better.

I kind of like your challenging tone, it’s full of the bitterness and rage of a spoilt child that suddenly, after years of taking has been put in the rather awkward position of having to defend for himself. What does concerns me, in fact it scares me, is that it’s made you myopic and dull.

If you’ve got better ideas then share them. Guide us Ben. Show us the way.

oh goody, finally someone who has an opinion and wants to start a riot. i like you ben, its just a pity you have missed the complete fucking point of this blog, rob and probably advertising as a whole. this place is not some sort of cult fan club, its for rob for fucks sake. sure we like how he thinks but when hes wrong none of us are to cautious to call him on it and thats why i know hell not mind your comments even if it comes across as you chucking childish stones. by the way, he has actually achieved quite a fucking lot thank you very much and not by post rationalising (though he is guilty of that sometimes 🙂 ) but by actually inspiring creatives to do work that actually works and makes a difference. by all means hate this blog ben, by all means hate rob, but either dont come back, get your facts right or seemingly have an opinion rather than just slag him off for what he thinks and how he expresses himself. oh and if all i do is swear, as you kindly point out, its because i take this blog in the manner it is meant so whats your excuse? by the way, do mcanns have an office in portland?

There are constructive ways to discuss things.
Marcus, for someone who’s starting an ideas company, you’d do well to temper your rants.
Planners aren’t chipping away at anything, (I hope), and if that’s the way you think, that’s really lame.
If there is a planner vs creative battle going on, I hope creatives win, because without us, I’m not sure what you’d do for a job.
And yeah, I know the business model that finds artists, designers and writers to create ads in an unstructured agency,
but again, you’ll still need creative writers, creative designers and creative people.
You’ll still be piggy backing on the talent of creatives.
And no amount of blogging or ranting or really, really long emotional comments is going to change that.
And Rob, yep, I like the idea of helping homeless people too.
But you do that by giving them a sense of pride and helping them to slowly re-enter society.
It also calls for more compassion than sitting at a computer and typing, “Please help me to help the homeless, I am ever so clever”
If you really wanted to help them, instead of getting the “big group over there” community pat on the head, you’d be talking with social workers, not wannebe advertising employees.

Is there anyone that can calmly counter these two point?

“Piggy backing on the talent of creatives”

Oh for fucks sake. Are you 5 or something? Are you not aware of the concept of people working together. It doesnt matter how good a creative you are, if you havent got the strategy it wont work. If you cant get someone to convince the client, it wont work.

Thats lazy thinking, it self important thinking, its just stupid.

Secondly, if you actually looked, the whole concept of the Human2 project was to do EXACTLY what you said. Theres no point talking to social workers if you havent got a basic plan or idea worked out yet.

Thats the difference between us and you, we are happy to ask other people and learn from them. Whereas you clearly want to take all the credit for something that was planned by someone else, strategised by someone else, sold by someone else, and created with someone else.

I think you haven’t really understood what The Ides of March is Ben.

And yeah, ok. I skimmed the homeless entry. My bad.
I’ll give you that one.

oh man, Andy, you’re like Ellis in Die Hard.

Planners, this guy is not a creative.
Tell them Andy,
tell them you’re not a creative.

depends on your definition of creative ben. according to you, probably not.

Still piggy backing on the talent of creatives.

for someone who said this wasnt about creatives and planners youre doing a fucking good impression of it. i fucking hate most planners because most of them add nothing and claim everything but campbell isnt one of them becuse not only does he fight for creatives to be better, the fucker then takes it on to help sell it. come to nyc, ill buy you a beer, your anger is something we can cultivate.

Actually Ben, it’s not your email address. It was just a pretty good way a catching your IP address.

Hello Ben …

First of all huge apologies for coming to this discussion late – been travelling and just got in.

Secondly, you’ve got me bang to rights.

I am a worthless piece of shit who lives in the shadows of anyone who has a business card with the word “CREATIVE” written on it in big bold letters.

Infact when you decide to stop piggybacking off whichever company you work and set up Haversham, please be sure to let me know as I’ll need to associate myself with whatever 30″ piece of wallpaper genius you produce.

OK … OK … I’m being an arse … you are as entitled to your opinion as I am and to be honest, I am quite chuffed you’ve written in because it’s caused a decent debate which needed to be had.

I do think you haven’t really got a good understanding of me because some of your comments just aren’t representative of who I am/what I do/what I believe – but I’m a big boy, I can take it.

Infact the only thing I am disappointed about [apart from slagging human_2 which is being done for genuine reasons and is involving all the elements you ‘suggested’] is that a crappy post about agency propriety tools drove you so over the edge when I’ve written far more offensive and opinionated topics … covering everything from Sir Martin to how many planners are worth sod all.

Maybe when you’ve had a chance to read some of those, there’ll be one that will get your anger juices flowing again [ 🙂 ] … but please be rest assured, I take creativity VERY seriously and I do appreciate I can achieve nothing unless I work with very talented people throughout the process.

It sounds like you work with the sort of planner who I detest, if that’s the case – send them to this blog because I am far more likely to get angry with them than I ever would with you.

Cheers mate.

mature bastard

Thank you Rob. And yes, would that we all worked with the guys from Strawberry Frog, but most of us don’t. And when bad planners start losing their humility because the press start writing things like “Planners are the new rockstars” everything suffers. I don’t think planners live in our shadow, but I also don’t think it helps to start saying things like, “oh, everyone thinks we’re the interesting ones now” and I think it’s a prevailing attitude.

I think there’s a lot of testosterone floating around here that could probably be better used if it vented less and created more.

Apologies for the Human 2 thing, I only skimmed it. If you want to help anyone out there, God speed. It was a cheap shot. And Marcus, I would like you to take my personal email address off
your website. I’m happy to discuss things in this forum, but I don’t want vitriolic hate spam clogging my inbox. There is a reason the email address is required but not published. Sheesh, you’re really a nasty piece of work aren’t you.

[…] Ben Haversham Helping Ben Haversham understand The Ides of March. Ben – it’s not an advertising […]

This was your comment. As was the scary IP stalker one. So can you remove it please?

Hi Ben …

OK, we’re quits on human_2 and it really is something close to my heart so I hate that you could ever think it was done more for ego than a genuine desire to make something poisitive happen.

As regards planners being the new Rock Stars … I fucking hate that attitude, infact I am VERY vocal against this ‘arrogant planner superiority’ that seems to be all the rage at the moment.

I am a planner who has publically questioned what many planners do because all too often, it seems they’re a creative restrictor than a liberator.

I love creativity … I celebrate it and encourage it …
http://robcampbell.wordpress.com/2007/06/27/blinkered-about-content/ … I just hate when people think a 30″ TVC is enough.

That’s not slagging off creative people, it’s slagging off anyone who doesn’t let an idea truly come to life wherever and whenever it can.

While I am an angry fuck, it’s actually based on seeking a better way … not just for consumers and society, but creativity as a whole.

We’re all in this together and my attitude is that if I can help make life easier for those who want to push boundaries, then I’ll of done something useful for all of us, ha.

And for the record, while I never worked with Strawberry Frog … I have with HHCL, Mother and Crispin so I think I can say I am proudly a creatives planner – especially compared to the sort of sods you talk about.

As I said previously, by all means send those useless bums over to me so I can give them a metaphorical kick up the arse, but as far as I am concerned, you’re not going to piss me off – we’re actually on the same side. 🙂

Now I must go to bed … so have fun and if you would like to talk about this further [and to be honest, I would love to hear your angst because I do want to stop this divisional attitude going on] please feel free to email me at ‘rob at cynical-world.com’

Ben … who are you calling a jerk now?

You calling me a jerk Ben?

There is no fucking email thing. Are you calling me a jerk Ben?

And yeah Rob, I don’t drink beer, but if you’re up for a coffee, email me and we’ll hook up.

Thank you.

Still didn’t answer the question though.

I take it you say that because Francis has put a link to it on his blog? Nah … and even if it does, it would be like being bullied by a wealthy 2 year old who has no teeth, properly formed backbone or sense of reality 🙂

Oh, I’d forgotten about this post. This one was fun.